Comments on: Who’s really to blame in most cyclist accidental deaths? http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/ The Online Magazine of Austin Cycling Culture Tue, 15 May 2012 00:59:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: clint http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-16240 clint Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:50:14 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-16240 You can argue all you want about who's at fault. In the end it 's the cyclist who dies. Keep your strong opinions and keep saying your right and keep dying. What about the poor motorist who have to bear the burden after they kill one of you and then have to pay financially for it. Where is your insurance and registration? I hit a group of cyclist on my motorcycle including a little girl of seven when they all( about ten of them)turned in front of me and not one of them signaled. As I met the victims families in the hospital they blamed me even though the police blamed them. As I told them hate me all they want but if I was in a car that day they would all be dead. Who wins that argument? Stay off the road if you do not want to be hit! You can argue all you want about who’s at fault. In the end it ‘s the cyclist who dies. Keep your strong opinions and keep saying your right and keep dying. What about the poor motorist who have to bear the burden after they kill one of you and then have to pay financially for it. Where is your insurance and registration? I hit a group of cyclist on my motorcycle including a little girl of seven when they all( about ten of them)turned in front of me and not one of them signaled. As I met the victims families in the hospital they blamed me even though the police blamed them. As I told them hate me all they want but if I was in a car that day they would all be dead. Who wins that argument? Stay off the road if you do not want to be hit!

]]> By: Howard the Duck http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4487 Howard the Duck Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:08:07 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4487 I commend Mr. Obama for reminding us of our freedom to choose whether or not we want to wear a helmet for bicycling, walking, swimming, sex, or anything else, for that matter. Yay America yay! I commend Mr. Obama for reminding us of our freedom to choose whether or not we want to wear a helmet for bicycling, walking, swimming, sex, or anything else, for that matter.

Yay America yay!

]]> By: elliott http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4486 elliott Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:41:00 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4486 I like the way you are thinking, Dave. I like the way you are thinking, Dave.

]]> By: Dave http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4484 Dave Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:02:32 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4484 I think it just confirms what people know intuitively, that cars are the major danger when cycling. If you ask most any non-cyclist why they don't ride a bike, the major concern is that it is not safe to ride on the streets with cars. They don't say, "oh, if I cycle I'll start breaking all the traffic laws and then I'll have an accident". Why are we having these sorts of conversations? It is about wanting to be able to ride a bike, or walk, safely. Not surprisingly, for motorists, the conversation is mostly about not being inconvenienced, since they virtually cannot be harmed by bicyclists. Thus, when more infrastructure and accommodations are suggested for bicyclists, motorists remember their resentment, irritation, and anger at being inconvenienced, and suggest that its all the cyclists fault, and if they just obeyed the law, things would be fine, and no money would need to be diverted from road improvements for cars. (and besides, bicycles shouldn't be allowed on the roads anyway, its not safe!) There are several ironies here. One is that motorists pretend to be concerned for cyclists safety, but do not support infrastructure and programs that would enhance it. The other is that doing those improvements would also benefit motorists much more than they think. People often tell me: "ride safely", but this is not possible, because my safety cannot be assured by my actions alone. I think it just confirms what people know intuitively, that cars are the major danger when cycling. If you ask most any non-cyclist why they don’t ride a bike, the major concern is that it is not safe to ride on the streets with cars. They don’t say, “oh, if I cycle I’ll start breaking all the traffic laws and then I’ll have an accident”.

Why are we having these sorts of conversations? It is about wanting to be able to ride a bike, or walk, safely.

Not surprisingly, for motorists, the conversation is mostly about not being inconvenienced, since they virtually cannot be harmed by bicyclists.

Thus, when more infrastructure and accommodations are suggested for bicyclists, motorists remember their resentment, irritation, and anger at being inconvenienced, and suggest that its all the cyclists fault, and if they just obeyed the law, things would be fine, and no money would need to be diverted from road improvements for cars. (and besides, bicycles shouldn’t be allowed on the roads anyway, its not safe!)

There are several ironies here. One is that motorists pretend to be concerned for cyclists safety, but do not support infrastructure and programs that would enhance it. The other is that doing those improvements would also benefit motorists much more than they think.

People often tell me: “ride safely”, but this is not possible, because my safety cannot be assured by my actions alone.

]]> By: Michael http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4483 Michael Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:00:44 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4483 You don't understand! Cyclists are at fault! They always are! They have to be . . . *sob* You don’t understand! Cyclists are at fault! They always are! They have to be . . . *sob*

]]> By: M1EK http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4479 M1EK Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:30:14 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4479 Point is this doesn't tell us anything useful without an estimate of the proportion of street traffic comprised from each mode. If 95% of street traffic in Toronto is motorized, for instance, 90% of accidents being caused by the motorized vehicle would actually suggest they're better behaved. Point is this doesn’t tell us anything useful without an estimate of the proportion of street traffic comprised from each mode. If 95% of street traffic in Toronto is motorized, for instance, 90% of accidents being caused by the motorized vehicle would actually suggest they’re better behaved.

]]> By: elliott http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4477 elliott Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:31:08 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4477 Mike, I don't think it's a comment on how often cyclists break the law but what the consequences are for motors when they do it or are inattentive. When the cyclist does the same, the consequences aren't the same. That doesn't excuse the behavior, but it is interesting to me that such a high rate of accidents is the motorist's fault. I'm quick to defend our two wheeled brethren, but I didn't think the rate would be so high. Mike,
I don’t think it’s a comment on how often cyclists break the law but what the consequences are for motors when they do it or are inattentive. When the cyclist does the same, the consequences aren’t the same. That doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it is interesting to me that such a high rate of accidents is the motorist’s fault. I’m quick to defend our two wheeled brethren, but I didn’t think the rate would be so high.

]]> By: M1EK http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4476 M1EK Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:15:14 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4476 Faulty logic. 99% of motorist/cyclist collisions could be the fault of the motorist without it saying anything about how often motorists broke the law compared to cyclists (it depends on how many such interactions result in a collision). Faulty logic. 99% of motorist/cyclist collisions could be the fault of the motorist without it saying anything about how often motorists broke the law compared to cyclists (it depends on how many such interactions result in a collision).

]]> By: elliott http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4474 elliott Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:22:37 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4474 Thanks for pointing that out, Nate. Intersections of different transportation modes are often dangerous as it disrupts the "normal" flow and expectations. I've read about similar issues with at-grade rail crossings. Thanks for pointing that out, Nate. Intersections of different transportation modes are often dangerous as it disrupts the “normal” flow and expectations. I’ve read about similar issues with at-grade rail crossings.

]]> By: Nate http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/08/30/whos-really-to-blame-in-most-cyclist-accidential-deaths/comment-page-1/#comment-4473 Nate Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:51:52 +0000 http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7207#comment-4473 Freakonomics links to a position piece that cites the Toronto study instead of linking to the study itself, which may be found here: http://www.velomondial.net/velomondiall2000/PDF/TOMLINSO.PDF Something for sidewalk riders to consider (page 2): "In just over half of these crashes [motorist improperly entering an intersection controlled by stop sign or red light], the cyclist was struck while crossing the intersection within the pedestrian crosswalk." Page 3: "Overall, the most significant secondary factor was cycling on the footpath or crosswalk. This behaviour was most frequent in collisions where the motorist was turning right at a red light (86%) or emerging from a private drive (81%)." Freakonomics links to a position piece that cites the Toronto study instead of linking to the study itself, which may be found here:

http://www.velomondial.net/velomondiall2000/PDF/TOMLINSO.PDF

Something for sidewalk riders to consider (page 2):
“In just over half of these crashes [motorist improperly entering an intersection controlled by stop sign or red light], the cyclist was struck while crossing the intersection within the pedestrian crosswalk.”

Page 3:
“Overall, the most significant secondary factor was cycling on the footpath or crosswalk. This behaviour was most frequent in collisions where the motorist was turning right at a red light (86%) or emerging from a private drive (81%).”

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