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	<title>Comments on: Custom builders take a stab (and mostly miss) on transportation bikes at Oregon Manifest</title>
	<atom:link href="http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/</link>
	<description>The Online Magazine of Austin Cycling Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5124</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5124</guid>
		<description>I share some of the frustration and all of the awe with Oregon Manifest. I covered the Constructors Design Challenge for bikeportland.org and volunteer on a few nights when the gallery is open. The organizers certainly did a fine job. I had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing many of the builders. Here are a few observations.

In speaking with Mauricio Rebolledo, http://www.rebolledocycles.com/, I heard what I thought was a great insight. He brought a beautiful bike that he felt he could ride on the streets, pick up the groceries, then pop off the fenders, etc. and race it in cyclocross. In other words, a multi-purpose bike. Like many riders, and I suspect many commenters here, I have a few bicycles. But, multiple capabilities in one bike make real sense for the average buyer. I would love to have a purpose-built city bike, but I can hardly justify it because it would mean one more bike in the basement while others, perfectly capable, sitting idle when I needed to go to the grocery store.

The many elements of the finished bikes, even if very few could be called strictly &quot;transport&quot; bikes, will inspire others and perhaps make their way into production bicycles. For example, the internal cable for security and Tony Pereira&#039;s integrated U-lock. Further, to see a number of these bikes with dyno hubs being ridden over a 78 mile course and some with internal geared hubs sends a message that these can be normal and acceptable components. We don&#039;t need to rely upon brightly polished racing hubs to get us from a to b. Those are just two examples.

While the Oregon Manifest featured many Oregon builders, it was not exclusively a Portland or even Oregon showcase. Of the 31 entrants, 17 were from Oregon, so just a bit more than half. In fact, as I was finishing my interviews, Jocelyn Sycip, director, stressed that this was intended to be broader than Portland or Oregon. Witness the significant gallery &quot;Dreams On Wheels&quot; from Denmark.

As for who Oregon Manifest is, it is a domestic non profit corporation headquartered at Chris King Precision Components. I don&#039;t know if there are such things as members or who they might be, though it&#039;s fairly easy to find the folks managing the various programs.

With the full range of activities under way with Oregon Manifest, I think they will succeed in raising awareness of bicycling even in a very bicycle-centric town. And, the galleries, events and parties will certainly inspire some to get on a bike. That&#039;s a win, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share some of the frustration and all of the awe with Oregon Manifest. I covered the Constructors Design Challenge for bikeportland.org and volunteer on a few nights when the gallery is open. The organizers certainly did a fine job. I had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing many of the builders. Here are a few observations.</p>
<p>In speaking with Mauricio Rebolledo, <a href="http://www.rebolledocycles.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rebolledocycles.com/</a>, I heard what I thought was a great insight. He brought a beautiful bike that he felt he could ride on the streets, pick up the groceries, then pop off the fenders, etc. and race it in cyclocross. In other words, a multi-purpose bike. Like many riders, and I suspect many commenters here, I have a few bicycles. But, multiple capabilities in one bike make real sense for the average buyer. I would love to have a purpose-built city bike, but I can hardly justify it because it would mean one more bike in the basement while others, perfectly capable, sitting idle when I needed to go to the grocery store.</p>
<p>The many elements of the finished bikes, even if very few could be called strictly &#8220;transport&#8221; bikes, will inspire others and perhaps make their way into production bicycles. For example, the internal cable for security and Tony Pereira&#8217;s integrated U-lock. Further, to see a number of these bikes with dyno hubs being ridden over a 78 mile course and some with internal geared hubs sends a message that these can be normal and acceptable components. We don&#8217;t need to rely upon brightly polished racing hubs to get us from a to b. Those are just two examples.</p>
<p>While the Oregon Manifest featured many Oregon builders, it was not exclusively a Portland or even Oregon showcase. Of the 31 entrants, 17 were from Oregon, so just a bit more than half. In fact, as I was finishing my interviews, Jocelyn Sycip, director, stressed that this was intended to be broader than Portland or Oregon. Witness the significant gallery &#8220;Dreams On Wheels&#8221; from Denmark.</p>
<p>As for who Oregon Manifest is, it is a domestic non profit corporation headquartered at Chris King Precision Components. I don&#8217;t know if there are such things as members or who they might be, though it&#8217;s fairly easy to find the folks managing the various programs.</p>
<p>With the full range of activities under way with Oregon Manifest, I think they will succeed in raising awareness of bicycling even in a very bicycle-centric town. And, the galleries, events and parties will certainly inspire some to get on a bike. That&#8217;s a win, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: metrofiets (metrofiets)</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5123</link>
		<dc:creator>metrofiets (metrofiets)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5123</guid>
		<description>OUTSIDE LOOKING IN - A postmortem (of sorts) of &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://twitter.com/oregonmanifest&quot;&gt;@oregonmanifest&lt;/a&gt;.  Comments from builders are VERY informative. http://tinyurl.com/ycpmatd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OUTSIDE LOOKING IN &#8211; A postmortem (of sorts) of <a rel="nofollow" href="http://twitter.com/oregonmanifest">@oregonmanifest</a>.  Comments from builders are VERY informative. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ycpmatd" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/ycpmatd</a></p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5114</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5114</guid>
		<description>Curt,
Thanks for your thoughtful critique of the event. It appears you were not alone in your observations. I agree it seems like a good event, and hopefully the organizers will take these comments to heart to improve the event. I&#039;ve organized a lot of events in my various careers and know things aren&#039;t always easy or come out the way you planned. I&#039;m planning on participating next time and we&#039;ll see if these things get ironed out.

I&#039;m not sure who the Oregon Manifest is put it seemed like part of their mission was to promote local frame builders which would be a bit of a conflict with the mission of the Challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curt,<br />
Thanks for your thoughtful critique of the event. It appears you were not alone in your observations. I agree it seems like a good event, and hopefully the organizers will take these comments to heart to improve the event. I&#8217;ve organized a lot of events in my various careers and know things aren&#8217;t always easy or come out the way you planned. I&#8217;m planning on participating next time and we&#8217;ll see if these things get ironed out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure who the Oregon Manifest is put it seemed like part of their mission was to promote local frame builders which would be a bit of a conflict with the mission of the Challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Goodrich</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5113</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Goodrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5113</guid>
		<description>First off, my hat&#039;s off to the organizers for pulling this off.  It was no small undertaking and none of us should lose sight of that.  With that said, my take on it was first and foremost the bikes should behave like well made bikes.  If that hurdle isn&#039;t cleared then that bike should not be judged.  I assumed the race was the testing ground and the bikes would be judged after and not before.  That obviously isn&#039;t what happened because there were plenty of bikes that won awards that did not perform like well made bikes.  I would love to participate again next year but only if the bikes are judged after the race.

Secondly, I thought the whole locking requirement was a solution looking for a problem.  When did it become difficult to lock a bike?  Tony&#039;s lock was clever but one still needed something to carry the U section of the lock.  So I&#039;m not seeing that as an advance.  I hope (genuinely) the design won&#039;t compromise the steerer.  I&#039;m not picking on you Tony.  I just wouldn&#039;t go there.  The King idea of the cable in the top tube just makes the additional weight of the lock a permanent or semi permanent to the bike.  If it doesn&#039;t rattle I&#039;d be surprised.  Again, what problem has been solved?  What problems have been created?  I don&#039;t have the answers but I do know that locking a bike up is not a problem in need of solving.

Third, I&#039;d like to see an alignment between the judging points and the race aspect.  The requirements were such that most bikes were overbuilt is carrying capacity for the given race.  That&#039;s not bad and I&#039;m not advocating transportation bikes being only able to carry 10#.  But that load carrying capacity was all that was necessary for the race.  Anymore carrying capacity was like bringing a knife to a gun fight.  Not a bad tool.  Just the wrong one for the job.  

Fourth, if it&#039;s a race then lets race.  If the race is structured like Nascar where there&#039;s rules to make the bikes very similar to each other, fine.  But then spell that out in writing.  Otherwise, if you call it a race well then it&#039;s a race and I&#039;m going to build what I think is the fastest bike for the given course.  

Those are some of my criticisms but I don&#039;t want to end on that.  I supported the event by participating and will do so again if I see the event evolving into something meaningful.  My rider had a great time and the promoters should feel proud for putting on a fun event.  


P.S. who are the members of Oregon Manifest?  That&#039;s a real question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, my hat&#8217;s off to the organizers for pulling this off.  It was no small undertaking and none of us should lose sight of that.  With that said, my take on it was first and foremost the bikes should behave like well made bikes.  If that hurdle isn&#8217;t cleared then that bike should not be judged.  I assumed the race was the testing ground and the bikes would be judged after and not before.  That obviously isn&#8217;t what happened because there were plenty of bikes that won awards that did not perform like well made bikes.  I would love to participate again next year but only if the bikes are judged after the race.</p>
<p>Secondly, I thought the whole locking requirement was a solution looking for a problem.  When did it become difficult to lock a bike?  Tony&#8217;s lock was clever but one still needed something to carry the U section of the lock.  So I&#8217;m not seeing that as an advance.  I hope (genuinely) the design won&#8217;t compromise the steerer.  I&#8217;m not picking on you Tony.  I just wouldn&#8217;t go there.  The King idea of the cable in the top tube just makes the additional weight of the lock a permanent or semi permanent to the bike.  If it doesn&#8217;t rattle I&#8217;d be surprised.  Again, what problem has been solved?  What problems have been created?  I don&#8217;t have the answers but I do know that locking a bike up is not a problem in need of solving.</p>
<p>Third, I&#8217;d like to see an alignment between the judging points and the race aspect.  The requirements were such that most bikes were overbuilt is carrying capacity for the given race.  That&#8217;s not bad and I&#8217;m not advocating transportation bikes being only able to carry 10#.  But that load carrying capacity was all that was necessary for the race.  Anymore carrying capacity was like bringing a knife to a gun fight.  Not a bad tool.  Just the wrong one for the job.  </p>
<p>Fourth, if it&#8217;s a race then lets race.  If the race is structured like Nascar where there&#8217;s rules to make the bikes very similar to each other, fine.  But then spell that out in writing.  Otherwise, if you call it a race well then it&#8217;s a race and I&#8217;m going to build what I think is the fastest bike for the given course.  </p>
<p>Those are some of my criticisms but I don&#8217;t want to end on that.  I supported the event by participating and will do so again if I see the event evolving into something meaningful.  My rider had a great time and the promoters should feel proud for putting on a fun event.  </p>
<p>P.S. who are the members of Oregon Manifest?  That&#8217;s a real question.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Keller</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5109</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5109</guid>
		<description>I saw a mention of this contest right before the deadline.  I read the rules and was stumped, so I just resolved to look at the entrants.  Finding out that the judges were also stumped by the rules doesn&#039;t surprise me, but it does grate a little.  I think the rules really did suggest a mountain bike with fenders, lights and racks or at least a cross bike with fenders, lights and racks.

To me, any bike with fenders and lights is at least a reasonable transportation bike.  My commuter is a touring bike, and it works pretty well.  The only issue I have with it is that the gears ice up 5 times a year when we have freezing rain.  So I&#039;m building a commuter with an IGH, chaincase and better racks.  It wouldn&#039;t work on a 70 mile multi-surface brevet, but I think it will be a good transportation bike.  I wouldn&#039;t mind a fixed gear, but I have too much climbing for that when I&#039;m trying not to sweat on my work clothes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a mention of this contest right before the deadline.  I read the rules and was stumped, so I just resolved to look at the entrants.  Finding out that the judges were also stumped by the rules doesn&#8217;t surprise me, but it does grate a little.  I think the rules really did suggest a mountain bike with fenders, lights and racks or at least a cross bike with fenders, lights and racks.</p>
<p>To me, any bike with fenders and lights is at least a reasonable transportation bike.  My commuter is a touring bike, and it works pretty well.  The only issue I have with it is that the gears ice up 5 times a year when we have freezing rain.  So I&#8217;m building a commuter with an IGH, chaincase and better racks.  It wouldn&#8217;t work on a 70 mile multi-surface brevet, but I think it will be a good transportation bike.  I wouldn&#8217;t mind a fixed gear, but I have too much climbing for that when I&#8217;m trying not to sweat on my work clothes.</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5019</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5019</guid>
		<description>Drew,
I think the small wheel bikes are especially good for those with limited space or going multi-modal. The main drawback I see to them is the ride quality is not as great as larger wheels. It also seems like most 20&quot; bikes are not equipped to carry very much. This is a natural trade-off in the folding versions, but I&#039;d be interested to see what others come up with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drew,<br />
I think the small wheel bikes are especially good for those with limited space or going multi-modal. The main drawback I see to them is the ride quality is not as great as larger wheels. It also seems like most 20&#8243; bikes are not equipped to carry very much. This is a natural trade-off in the folding versions, but I&#8217;d be interested to see what others come up with.</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5018</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5018</guid>
		<description>Wow, that was a great constructors competition! Lots of skill evident, and original thinking. Tonys lock that doubled as a flickstand was ingenious. Aherenes bike was my favorite. Joshs bike was really nice but his smallhaul is a real showstopper. Maybe next year we will see it there.
I can understand some of the criticism, but hey, this was the first one. It will only get better. And perhaps we will see some more thinking out of the box;  for example, how about the Raleigh 20, or Japanese shopper bike! Small wheels could make a great city bike. Wheels are much stronger, toeclip overlap never happens, low standover height (people of different heights could ride it), a triple crank can be on a double spindle,  they need not be burdened with low rider racks- the load is already low! lots more vertical space for carrying stuff, and if portability (or folding)  is in the design, integrating with the car, bus or train is a real advantage for a city bike. And Paul de Vivie (Velocio) recommended them!
I wonder why Bike Friday did not enter something? Maybe I  gotta enter this competition myself next year to show that small wheels rock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that was a great constructors competition! Lots of skill evident, and original thinking. Tonys lock that doubled as a flickstand was ingenious. Aherenes bike was my favorite. Joshs bike was really nice but his smallhaul is a real showstopper. Maybe next year we will see it there.<br />
I can understand some of the criticism, but hey, this was the first one. It will only get better. And perhaps we will see some more thinking out of the box;  for example, how about the Raleigh 20, or Japanese shopper bike! Small wheels could make a great city bike. Wheels are much stronger, toeclip overlap never happens, low standover height (people of different heights could ride it), a triple crank can be on a double spindle,  they need not be burdened with low rider racks- the load is already low! lots more vertical space for carrying stuff, and if portability (or folding)  is in the design, integrating with the car, bus or train is a real advantage for a city bike. And Paul de Vivie (Velocio) recommended them!<br />
I wonder why Bike Friday did not enter something? Maybe I  gotta enter this competition myself next year to show that small wheels rock.</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5012</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5012</guid>
		<description>smelly pants (did you pick that name so I&#039;d have to repeat it!),

I agree that there are multiple ways to get to the same solution. I think any design contest should focus on the problems that need addressing or challenges that need to be met and then give the builders carte blanche to come up with creative solutions. So example, one guideline might be keeping street cloths clean. A traditional set of fenders and chain guard is perfectly acceptable solution, but there may be other more creative ways to get the same results. The design challenge ought to promote innovation.

I do use tried and true design elements in my bike to produce a bike with the purpose of transportation cycling. Mine is not the only way, but the practical needs of the transportation cyclists must be taken into account for a design to be good.

As for a bike that accomplishes everyday needs and is also fun to ride 150 miles, I&#039;m not sure there is a design that handles both of these objectives in a satisfactory way. The Xtracycle design is probably the one that could come closest. Randonneuring bikes can do the job as well but are usually more limited in what they can carry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>smelly pants (did you pick that name so I&#8217;d have to repeat it!),</p>
<p>I agree that there are multiple ways to get to the same solution. I think any design contest should focus on the problems that need addressing or challenges that need to be met and then give the builders carte blanche to come up with creative solutions. So example, one guideline might be keeping street cloths clean. A traditional set of fenders and chain guard is perfectly acceptable solution, but there may be other more creative ways to get the same results. The design challenge ought to promote innovation.</p>
<p>I do use tried and true design elements in my bike to produce a bike with the purpose of transportation cycling. Mine is not the only way, but the practical needs of the transportation cyclists must be taken into account for a design to be good.</p>
<p>As for a bike that accomplishes everyday needs and is also fun to ride 150 miles, I&#8217;m not sure there is a design that handles both of these objectives in a satisfactory way. The Xtracycle design is probably the one that could come closest. Randonneuring bikes can do the job as well but are usually more limited in what they can carry.</p>
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		<title>By: smelly pants</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5010</link>
		<dc:creator>smelly pants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5010</guid>
		<description>I think this article is a little too critical concerning what the writer feels is an appropriate load carrying bike. Many peoples needs are very different based on however they might want to carry a load. 

My girlfriend is a gardener and uses a bianchi\extracycle and I use a lemond &quot;yellow jersey&quot; with a rack and bags.  both carry plenty.  Ive carried 5 foot high piles of brush on the lemond and sometimes she only carries a lock. 

Sometimes people only want one bike in their life and you have to weigh alot of options when choosing one. Perhaps you want a bike that will carry groceries AND take you 150 miles out of the city. If thats the case many of thes bike fit that category and the electra taking up space in the cheese isle would definitley be the wrong bike.

My main argument with the manifest was that the design callenge was really stacked with oregon builders and that (correct me if Im wrong) none of the race winners even made it into the top 5. Where sat loose racks and bikes that werent even ridden.

All in all every one worked really hard and there were many great bikes in the Manifest. Good luck next year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this article is a little too critical concerning what the writer feels is an appropriate load carrying bike. Many peoples needs are very different based on however they might want to carry a load. </p>
<p>My girlfriend is a gardener and uses a bianchi\extracycle and I use a lemond &#8220;yellow jersey&#8221; with a rack and bags.  both carry plenty.  Ive carried 5 foot high piles of brush on the lemond and sometimes she only carries a lock. </p>
<p>Sometimes people only want one bike in their life and you have to weigh alot of options when choosing one. Perhaps you want a bike that will carry groceries AND take you 150 miles out of the city. If thats the case many of thes bike fit that category and the electra taking up space in the cheese isle would definitley be the wrong bike.</p>
<p>My main argument with the manifest was that the design callenge was really stacked with oregon builders and that (correct me if Im wrong) none of the race winners even made it into the top 5. Where sat loose racks and bikes that werent even ridden.</p>
<p>All in all every one worked really hard and there were many great bikes in the Manifest. Good luck next year!</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/10/05/custom-builders-take-a-stab-and-mostly-miss-on-transportation-bikes-at-oregon-manifest/comment-page-1/#comment-5006</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=7565#comment-5006</guid>
		<description>Josh,
Love your cargo bike (I liked the Ritchey Breakway touring bike you submitted too.) I read about it in Bicycle Quarterly, and it seems like the first real attempt to innovate the Long John/Bakfiets design in some time. Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh,<br />
Love your cargo bike (I liked the Ritchey Breakway touring bike you submitted too.) I read about it in Bicycle Quarterly, and it seems like the first real attempt to innovate the Long John/Bakfiets design in some time. Well done.</p>
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