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	<title>Comments on: First bike boulevard open house highlights tensions between cyclists and Nueces Street property owners</title>
	<atom:link href="http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/</link>
	<description>The Online Magazine of Austin Cycling Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Bike counts, toy rides, another near-fatal OC hit-and-run &#171; BikingInLA</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-10488</link>
		<dc:creator>Bike counts, toy rides, another near-fatal OC hit-and-run &#171; BikingInLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 07:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-10488</guid>
		<description>[...] artists reportedly will plead not guilty. UPS is making some holiday deliveries by bike. Austin struggles to find consensus on the city’s first bike boulevard. A Utah cyclist is under arrest for groping another rider. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] artists reportedly will plead not guilty. UPS is making some holiday deliveries by bike. Austin struggles to find consensus on the city’s first bike boulevard. A Utah cyclist is under arrest for groping another rider. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6266</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6266</guid>
		<description>Alonso,
I know for a fact that the adversaries are not the only ones talking to decision makers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alonso,<br />
I know for a fact that the adversaries are not the only ones talking to decision makers.</p>
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		<title>By: alonso</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6265</link>
		<dc:creator>alonso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6265</guid>
		<description>My main fear now is that the adversaries to the boulevard could be getting a lot of access to the decision takers, and the fora to discuss it will be crowded with supporters talking to the walls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main fear now is that the adversaries to the boulevard could be getting a lot of access to the decision takers, and the fora to discuss it will be crowded with supporters talking to the walls.</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6260</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6260</guid>
		<description>M1EK,
Again, I agree. I can only speak for myself, but a bike boulevard that is one in name only will not get my support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M1EK,<br />
Again, I agree. I can only speak for myself, but a bike boulevard that is one in name only will not get my support.</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6259</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6259</guid>
		<description>I spent a couple days off this to make sure I got some perspective - I still fear the Shoal Creek scenario quite likely, given comments about switching to Rio Grande, not putting up bollards, etc. (see the Austin Chronicle&#039;s podcast for how this looks from the outside).

What I see is a lot of support for something that ends up being called a bike boulevard, but way too much willingness to compromise on the details that actually make it a functional bike boulevard. The bollards and diverters, for instance, aren&#039;t just a minor detail - in most cities, they are what makes the thing work, and we&#039;ve already &#039;compromised&#039; those completely out of the picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent a couple days off this to make sure I got some perspective &#8211; I still fear the Shoal Creek scenario quite likely, given comments about switching to Rio Grande, not putting up bollards, etc. (see the Austin Chronicle&#8217;s podcast for how this looks from the outside).</p>
<p>What I see is a lot of support for something that ends up being called a bike boulevard, but way too much willingness to compromise on the details that actually make it a functional bike boulevard. The bollards and diverters, for instance, aren&#8217;t just a minor detail &#8211; in most cities, they are what makes the thing work, and we&#8217;ve already &#8216;compromised&#8217; those completely out of the picture.</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6238</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6238</guid>
		<description>M1Ek,
I agree. However, what I think we are saying is that the cycling leadership (at least the ones engaged this time) know what they want and have the ability to mobilize more people. Shoal Creek had &quot;leaders&quot; speaking for us saying the compromise was good. I could be wrong, but I don&#039;t think we&#039;ll have that problem this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M1Ek,<br />
I agree. However, what I think we are saying is that the cycling leadership (at least the ones engaged this time) know what they want and have the ability to mobilize more people. Shoal Creek had &#8220;leaders&#8221; speaking for us saying the compromise was good. I could be wrong, but I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll have that problem this time.</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6237</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6237</guid>
		<description>Hey guys, one last point from the one person who was right about Shoal Creek from the very very beginning: the point to take away from Shoal Creek had NOTHING to do with the mobilization of the community or with an adopted bike plan or anything else. The ONLY point to take away is that it is critical to IDENTIFY where compromise is possible, and most importantly, where it is NOT.

The place city council failed was in making a choice between competing interests (by default, then, choosing parking). Don&#039;t present this as if a compromise is possible if it really isn&#039;t, because then the other &#039;choice&#039; will win out every time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys, one last point from the one person who was right about Shoal Creek from the very very beginning: the point to take away from Shoal Creek had NOTHING to do with the mobilization of the community or with an adopted bike plan or anything else. The ONLY point to take away is that it is critical to IDENTIFY where compromise is possible, and most importantly, where it is NOT.</p>
<p>The place city council failed was in making a choice between competing interests (by default, then, choosing parking). Don&#8217;t present this as if a compromise is possible if it really isn&#8217;t, because then the other &#8216;choice&#8217; will win out every time.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6234</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6234</guid>
		<description>The EMS/fire department issue could very well be a non-starter for a &quot;bike blvd&quot; *anywhere* -- after all, the fire department may need to go down that road for a fire, where ever the road is.

Though in this case, I assume there&#039;s as station right near this?  There doesn&#039;t appear to be one on Nueces itself anyways.

Though if they wanted to, they could solve the fire department problem with bollards like they have at the Capitol.  They&#039;re up most of the time, but the fire department has the ability to lower them as needed, either from the station or from the fire trucks themselves (like the traffic light changer things?)  It might be expensive, but not *that* expensive.  (Just make sure they&#039;re more far apart -- the ones at the capitol are tight enough to be slightly dangerous for cyclists.)

(Though to be fair, it will require more thought than that.  The bollards would need something to prevent them from going back up when a car was on top of them or approaching.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EMS/fire department issue could very well be a non-starter for a &#8220;bike blvd&#8221; *anywhere* &#8212; after all, the fire department may need to go down that road for a fire, where ever the road is.</p>
<p>Though in this case, I assume there&#8217;s as station right near this?  There doesn&#8217;t appear to be one on Nueces itself anyways.</p>
<p>Though if they wanted to, they could solve the fire department problem with bollards like they have at the Capitol.  They&#8217;re up most of the time, but the fire department has the ability to lower them as needed, either from the station or from the fire trucks themselves (like the traffic light changer things?)  It might be expensive, but not *that* expensive.  (Just make sure they&#8217;re more far apart &#8212; the ones at the capitol are tight enough to be slightly dangerous for cyclists.)</p>
<p>(Though to be fair, it will require more thought than that.  The bollards would need something to prevent them from going back up when a car was on top of them or approaching.)</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6229</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6229</guid>
		<description>Trey,
I also think we are still early in this process, and a resolution that makes most parties happy is possible. I think it is unwise to threaten the other parties with legal or political action at this point. That is not helpful in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trey,<br />
I also think we are still early in this process, and a resolution that makes most parties happy is possible. I think it is unwise to threaten the other parties with legal or political action at this point. That is not helpful in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/12/10/first-bike-boulevard-open-house-highlights-tensions-between-cyclists-and-nueces-street-property-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-6228</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=8098#comment-6228</guid>
		<description>Trey,
I am a business owner as well. I understand what is means to create something and the risk that is involved. I also know if I see an opportunity to increase the value of my business, either real property or the business itself, I ought to take a look at it.

I believe the property owners are against this plan because the case has not been made that there will be either neutral or positive economic benefit to the owners. I&#039;d welcome an opportunity to make that case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trey,<br />
I am a business owner as well. I understand what is means to create something and the risk that is involved. I also know if I see an opportunity to increase the value of my business, either real property or the business itself, I ought to take a look at it.</p>
<p>I believe the property owners are against this plan because the case has not been made that there will be either neutral or positive economic benefit to the owners. I&#8217;d welcome an opportunity to make that case.</p>
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