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	<title>Comments on: Looking at the value and ROI of bicycle advocacy</title>
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	<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/</link>
	<description>The Online Magazine of Austin Cycling Culture</description>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-12834</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-12834</guid>
		<description>Rick,
Thanks for the comments. I&#039;m sorry to see that you took down the site. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and think your site was a real asset to an industry in desperate need of change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick,<br />
Thanks for the comments. I&#8217;m sorry to see that you took down the site. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts and think your site was a real asset to an industry in desperate need of change.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Vosper</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-12811</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Vosper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 19:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-12811</guid>
		<description>My apologies-- I just found this site. Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful comments on my Advocacy position. My reasoning at the time was based on the success of the Take Me Fishing&quot; campaign, which got huge numbers of families out on boats (its primary purpose) and buying rods, reels, and other equipment (its secondary purpose) a few years ago.

For what&#039;s it&#039;s worth, my thinking has changed. One reason why Take Me Fishing was so successful was because it was based on a self-imposed tax within the fishing and boating industries. The other reason was, it was subsidized by surcharges on fishing licenses from the Department of the Interior. Neither of those items now seems likely or-- in today&#039;s political climate-- even possible to be applied to cycling.

I actually had a chance to meet briefly with Bikes Belong&#039;s Tim Blumenthal at Interbike last year and we had a cordial conversation on the topic.  While he accepts (which is not the same as &quot;agrees with&quot;) my premise that if advocacy groups did more to increase ridership, they&#039;d do better at getting infrastructure funded, he sees it more as a chicken/egg problem where the chicken part just happens to be easier to work on. 

PS: No point in going back to the blog; I took it down about a year ago when my observations were used out of context to support other people&#039;s notion that all advocacy is a waste of time...which, as you take pains to point out, was never (and still isn&#039;t)  my position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies&#8211; I just found this site. Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful comments on my Advocacy position. My reasoning at the time was based on the success of the Take Me Fishing&#8221; campaign, which got huge numbers of families out on boats (its primary purpose) and buying rods, reels, and other equipment (its secondary purpose) a few years ago.</p>
<p>For what&#8217;s it&#8217;s worth, my thinking has changed. One reason why Take Me Fishing was so successful was because it was based on a self-imposed tax within the fishing and boating industries. The other reason was, it was subsidized by surcharges on fishing licenses from the Department of the Interior. Neither of those items now seems likely or&#8211; in today&#8217;s political climate&#8211; even possible to be applied to cycling.</p>
<p>I actually had a chance to meet briefly with Bikes Belong&#8217;s Tim Blumenthal at Interbike last year and we had a cordial conversation on the topic.  While he accepts (which is not the same as &#8220;agrees with&#8221;) my premise that if advocacy groups did more to increase ridership, they&#8217;d do better at getting infrastructure funded, he sees it more as a chicken/egg problem where the chicken part just happens to be easier to work on. </p>
<p>PS: No point in going back to the blog; I took it down about a year ago when my observations were used out of context to support other people&#8217;s notion that all advocacy is a waste of time&#8230;which, as you take pains to point out, was never (and still isn&#8217;t)  my position.</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8205</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 14:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8205</guid>
		<description>Alonso,
I think Yellow Bike is an incredibly valuable part of our bike culture, but I do not think the organization in of itself the way it is currently organized will bridge the gap to majority market acceptance of the bicycle as a valid transportation choice. Awards are great, but they do not change people&#039;s habits.

I agree infrastructure is key to long term change. We have to make biking easy, convenient and safe. I just know that based on our experience with the proposed Nueces Street Bike Blvd, nothing other than basic traffic calming, that getting the political will to build this infrastructure in the face of the auto/oil &amp; gas/road engineer &amp; contractor lobby is going to be difficult until we can get more people in our tent. I think social cycling has the best ability to do that.

I don&#039;t think we stop funding advocacy, but I do agree with Vosper that expecting advocacy to put bodies on bikes is foolish. That&#039;s not its job, and we need a separate strategy and set of tactics to achieve that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alonso,<br />
I think Yellow Bike is an incredibly valuable part of our bike culture, but I do not think the organization in of itself the way it is currently organized will bridge the gap to majority market acceptance of the bicycle as a valid transportation choice. Awards are great, but they do not change people&#8217;s habits.</p>
<p>I agree infrastructure is key to long term change. We have to make biking easy, convenient and safe. I just know that based on our experience with the proposed Nueces Street Bike Blvd, nothing other than basic traffic calming, that getting the political will to build this infrastructure in the face of the auto/oil &#038; gas/road engineer &#038; contractor lobby is going to be difficult until we can get more people in our tent. I think social cycling has the best ability to do that.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we stop funding advocacy, but I do agree with Vosper that expecting advocacy to put bodies on bikes is foolish. That&#8217;s not its job, and we need a separate strategy and set of tactics to achieve that.</p>
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		<title>By: Alonso</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8195</link>
		<dc:creator>Alonso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 02:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8195</guid>
		<description>I love all organized rides that do not involve spandex such as Social rides, Critical Mass, Hump Day Nooner, Tuesday Morning Ride, The Heavy Metal Fitness, Yoga Ride, CycliDactyl B.C., SkelliCyclists, etc. 
Sadly, you have forgotten to mention Austin Yellow Bike, which is THE organization—anarchist as it is—that has been mentioned by the League of American Bicyclists to give Austin a Silver standing in its ranking for the most bike friendly cities in America.
Nonetheless, infrastructure is paramount to turn the wave of this car-centered society into a human-centered one, that is a society that prioritizes the bicycle over any other means of transportation for its able bodied people. Witout infrastructure there is no way to convince the majority of the population to change into alternative transportation. In this very same blog you republished that study which demonstrated that women—at large—will not bicycle if they do not have perceived safe routes to appropiate destinations. Infrastructure and connectivity. Is anyone surprised about these findings? Only traffic engineers would be surprised if they would deign to read the study. Other than them, it is so obvious and self-explanatory that keeping waiting for them to realize it is trully painful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love all organized rides that do not involve spandex such as Social rides, Critical Mass, Hump Day Nooner, Tuesday Morning Ride, The Heavy Metal Fitness, Yoga Ride, CycliDactyl B.C., SkelliCyclists, etc.<br />
Sadly, you have forgotten to mention Austin Yellow Bike, which is THE organization—anarchist as it is—that has been mentioned by the League of American Bicyclists to give Austin a Silver standing in its ranking for the most bike friendly cities in America.<br />
Nonetheless, infrastructure is paramount to turn the wave of this car-centered society into a human-centered one, that is a society that prioritizes the bicycle over any other means of transportation for its able bodied people. Witout infrastructure there is no way to convince the majority of the population to change into alternative transportation. In this very same blog you republished that study which demonstrated that women—at large—will not bicycle if they do not have perceived safe routes to appropiate destinations. Infrastructure and connectivity. Is anyone surprised about these findings? Only traffic engineers would be surprised if they would deign to read the study. Other than them, it is so obvious and self-explanatory that keeping waiting for them to realize it is trully painful.</p>
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		<title>By: Alonso</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8194</link>
		<dc:creator>Alonso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 02:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8194</guid>
		<description>I love all organized rides that do not involve spandex such as Social rides, Critical Mass, Hump Day Nooner, Tuesday Morning Ride, The Heavy Metal Fitness,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love all organized rides that do not involve spandex such as Social rides, Critical Mass, Hump Day Nooner, Tuesday Morning Ride, The Heavy Metal Fitness,</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8180</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 22:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8180</guid>
		<description>Jason Bucher,
Getting kids to ride more is a great long term strategy, but it will not immediately turn around the problem. I&#039;d also say as a parent who&#039;s witnessed other parents, the parents are the dominant decision makers on transportation and in general, they are paranoid about allowing their children to do anything unsupervised (never mind that children are less likely to be abducted today than in the 60s and 70s.) The other thing is that if there&#039;s no physical or social infrastructure to continue to promote cycling into adulthood, many of these children will cease riding when they grow up. Remember, based on these statistics, more people used to bike, but now they don&#039;t. The habits were there and now they aren&#039;t.

I&#039;d say, yes, create programs to encourage kids to ride, but don&#039;t expect a payoff for many years and don&#039;t expect a payoff at all if there is no adult program.

Jason,
I&#039;ve read the Copenhagenize article. I agree that convenience is a major factor in retaining utility cyclists and getting majority market adoption. When I was running Austin CarShare, cost and convenience were the major factors in choosing to car share. If there wasn&#039;t a car near by or it cost them more to be a member than to own, people just won&#039;t join. Same with bikes. 

I think one of the major points left out of that article is safety. Safety is consistently one of the top barriers to entry in cycling. Of course, that&#039;s not an issue in the stats Copenhagenize quotes because Copenhagen has great infrastructure that makes people feel safe. It&#039;s not an issue. We on the other hand have marginal facilities at best. Unfortunately, based on the recent Bike Blvd debate, I&#039;d say we&#039;re a long way from making that a reality. Until we get Copenhagen style facilities, I&#039;m putting my money on social cycling.

Safety is a major reason why social cycling brings people out. There&#039;s safety in numbers. In our recent spring social ride series, 93% of the participants said that riding downtown in a group made them feel safer. Individuals told me they would never have done the initial ride by themselves, but now feel comfortable having done it in a group. I think Mikael at Copenhagen underestimates the power of fun in getting people introduced to the concept of riding to get places. Yes, convenience needs to be there to keep them, but most people live within 5 miles of most activities in their life, a very bikeable distance for anyone. If they never try, they&#039;ll never know. Social cycling can be that bridge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason Bucher,<br />
Getting kids to ride more is a great long term strategy, but it will not immediately turn around the problem. I&#8217;d also say as a parent who&#8217;s witnessed other parents, the parents are the dominant decision makers on transportation and in general, they are paranoid about allowing their children to do anything unsupervised (never mind that children are less likely to be abducted today than in the 60s and 70s.) The other thing is that if there&#8217;s no physical or social infrastructure to continue to promote cycling into adulthood, many of these children will cease riding when they grow up. Remember, based on these statistics, more people used to bike, but now they don&#8217;t. The habits were there and now they aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say, yes, create programs to encourage kids to ride, but don&#8217;t expect a payoff for many years and don&#8217;t expect a payoff at all if there is no adult program.</p>
<p>Jason,<br />
I&#8217;ve read the Copenhagenize article. I agree that convenience is a major factor in retaining utility cyclists and getting majority market adoption. When I was running Austin CarShare, cost and convenience were the major factors in choosing to car share. If there wasn&#8217;t a car near by or it cost them more to be a member than to own, people just won&#8217;t join. Same with bikes. </p>
<p>I think one of the major points left out of that article is safety. Safety is consistently one of the top barriers to entry in cycling. Of course, that&#8217;s not an issue in the stats Copenhagenize quotes because Copenhagen has great infrastructure that makes people feel safe. It&#8217;s not an issue. We on the other hand have marginal facilities at best. Unfortunately, based on the recent Bike Blvd debate, I&#8217;d say we&#8217;re a long way from making that a reality. Until we get Copenhagen style facilities, I&#8217;m putting my money on social cycling.</p>
<p>Safety is a major reason why social cycling brings people out. There&#8217;s safety in numbers. In our recent spring social ride series, 93% of the participants said that riding downtown in a group made them feel safer. Individuals told me they would never have done the initial ride by themselves, but now feel comfortable having done it in a group. I think Mikael at Copenhagen underestimates the power of fun in getting people introduced to the concept of riding to get places. Yes, convenience needs to be there to keep them, but most people live within 5 miles of most activities in their life, a very bikeable distance for anyone. If they never try, they&#8217;ll never know. Social cycling can be that bridge.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8179</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 21:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8179</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an interesting alternative view:  http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/05/cycling-isnt-fun-its-transport.html .  The author is essentially saying that people start bicycling when it&#039;s the most convenient way to get around:  &quot;Make the bicycle the quickest way to get around a city or town. THAT&#039;S what people want. THAT&#039;S what will make them choose the bicycle. THAT&#039;S how we will mainstream urban cycling and work effectively towards liveable cities, healthier populations and The Common Good.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting alternative view:  <a href="http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/05/cycling-isnt-fun-its-transport.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/05/cycling-isnt-fun-its-transport.html</a> .  The author is essentially saying that people start bicycling when it&#8217;s the most convenient way to get around:  &#8220;Make the bicycle the quickest way to get around a city or town. THAT&#8217;S what people want. THAT&#8217;S what will make them choose the bicycle. THAT&#8217;S how we will mainstream urban cycling and work effectively towards liveable cities, healthier populations and The Common Good.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Bucher</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8178</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Bucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 21:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8178</guid>
		<description>The pursuit should be getting kids to ride to school.  Schools have been designed to support every parent to drive to drop off / pick up their kids creating traffic that is difficult for kids to navigate.  School districts should work around this - encourage walking / biking to school by either staggering times, creating drop off zones away from the school or other creative solutions.  It is a first step in getting kids back to riding all over neighborhoods, putting bikes back into daily sight and daily consideration.   

the traffic around my kid&#039;s elementary school is insane - and this is a neighborhood school where no kid lives greater than 2 miles from the school. 

It is sad to see the bike racks at elemantary schools - at a school of over 500 kids I&#039;ll see maybe 20 bikes.  That is a problem.  

Kid habits are easier to create.  Parents lives are around their kids&#039; needs and habits.  So, more kids bike = parents bike aware or even bike.   If you are looking for bang for the advocacy buck...there it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pursuit should be getting kids to ride to school.  Schools have been designed to support every parent to drive to drop off / pick up their kids creating traffic that is difficult for kids to navigate.  School districts should work around this &#8211; encourage walking / biking to school by either staggering times, creating drop off zones away from the school or other creative solutions.  It is a first step in getting kids back to riding all over neighborhoods, putting bikes back into daily sight and daily consideration.   </p>
<p>the traffic around my kid&#8217;s elementary school is insane &#8211; and this is a neighborhood school where no kid lives greater than 2 miles from the school. </p>
<p>It is sad to see the bike racks at elemantary schools &#8211; at a school of over 500 kids I&#8217;ll see maybe 20 bikes.  That is a problem.  </p>
<p>Kid habits are easier to create.  Parents lives are around their kids&#8217; needs and habits.  So, more kids bike = parents bike aware or even bike.   If you are looking for bang for the advocacy buck&#8230;there it is.</p>
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		<title>By: elliott</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8175</link>
		<dc:creator>elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 16:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8175</guid>
		<description>kelso,
I don&#039;t disagree that great facilities will increase the likelihood of people riding, but your observations were anecdotal and specific to that market. Vosper&#039;s stats cover the entire market over a long period and essentially fewer people, not more are riding. Now, the amount of infrastructure we have in this country is pathetic, but it was pathetic 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago and somehow more people per capita rode then. Great facilities may slow the losses, but without a concerted effort to get people on bikes, it will be a long time before the bleeding stops.

Advocacy is critical to the bike industry but for different reasons. We need to make sure things aren&#039;t done to make it harder to ride and improve safety. Vosper says advocacy and the resulting facilities in of themselves do not increase ridership, and I have to say I agree.

Yes, advocate for the industry. Yes, build more facilities. Yes do a PR campaign (but get the government and strategic partners to put in some dough, for God&#039;s sake), and yes, support groups like Social Cycling Austin that provide the physical channel to actually put real people on real bikes. It should not be an either/or and you shouldn&#039;t expect advocacy and facilities to solve all our problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kelso,<br />
I don&#8217;t disagree that great facilities will increase the likelihood of people riding, but your observations were anecdotal and specific to that market. Vosper&#8217;s stats cover the entire market over a long period and essentially fewer people, not more are riding. Now, the amount of infrastructure we have in this country is pathetic, but it was pathetic 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago and somehow more people per capita rode then. Great facilities may slow the losses, but without a concerted effort to get people on bikes, it will be a long time before the bleeding stops.</p>
<p>Advocacy is critical to the bike industry but for different reasons. We need to make sure things aren&#8217;t done to make it harder to ride and improve safety. Vosper says advocacy and the resulting facilities in of themselves do not increase ridership, and I have to say I agree.</p>
<p>Yes, advocate for the industry. Yes, build more facilities. Yes do a PR campaign (but get the government and strategic partners to put in some dough, for God&#8217;s sake), and yes, support groups like Social Cycling Austin that provide the physical channel to actually put real people on real bikes. It should not be an either/or and you shouldn&#8217;t expect advocacy and facilities to solve all our problems.</p>
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		<title>By: kelso</title>
		<link>http://austinontwowheels.org/2010/05/19/looking-at-the-value-and-roi-of-bicycle-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-8174</link>
		<dc:creator>kelso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 16:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austinontwowheels.org/?p=9096#comment-8174</guid>
		<description>15 years ago would have been 1995, wasn&#039;t this more or less the peak of mountain bike popularity?  It seems that every regular schmoe was buying one at that time..  

Building infrastructure absolutely gets more &#039;normal&#039; people on bikes.  I just got back from NYC where they&#039;ve been laying down bike lanes at breakneck speed, and when I arrived I could immediately tell there were far more cyclists on the road than there was just a couple years ago, and I see a similar effect here.  

If you build it they will come.  Many regular folks want to ride, but just don&#039;t feel that it&#039;s safe enough.  While the question of whether bike lanes actually make people safer is debatable, I think the lanes increase confidence amongst new riders and promote the perception that cycling is a viable transportation alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>15 years ago would have been 1995, wasn&#8217;t this more or less the peak of mountain bike popularity?  It seems that every regular schmoe was buying one at that time..  </p>
<p>Building infrastructure absolutely gets more &#8216;normal&#8217; people on bikes.  I just got back from NYC where they&#8217;ve been laying down bike lanes at breakneck speed, and when I arrived I could immediately tell there were far more cyclists on the road than there was just a couple years ago, and I see a similar effect here.  </p>
<p>If you build it they will come.  Many regular folks want to ride, but just don&#8217;t feel that it&#8217;s safe enough.  While the question of whether bike lanes actually make people safer is debatable, I think the lanes increase confidence amongst new riders and promote the perception that cycling is a viable transportation alternative.</p>
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